Curse

Super Igor · Feb 19, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

What if the mob is dead or is small? :P

Mob of 4 will become mob of 2-3 by the time you trigger your first splinter Also mob types, casters especially healers usaully kite around in big circles, melee moves around alot too only thing which is absolutely great to splinter are ranged physicals because they like to lock on one target.

Daesu · Feb 20, 2009, 12:41 AM // 00:41

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

What if the mob is dead or is small? :P

Mob of 4 will become mob of 2-3 by the time you trigger your first splinter Also mob types, casters especially healers usaully kite around in big circles, melee moves around alot too only thing which is absolutely great to splinter are ranged physicals because they like to lock on one target.

Uh...You are worried about killing mobs too fast? Is that why you try to slow down your killing speed on your discordway? Are you afraid the monsters would complain?

Doesn't matter ranged or melee, splinter is useful for both.

Super Igor · Feb 20, 2009, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Uh...You are worried about killing mobs too fast? Is that why you try to slow down your killing speed on your discordway? Are you afraid the monsters would complain?

Doesn't matter ranged or melee, splinter is useful for both.

Where the hell did I say that Daesu? You are making things up mate. o_O

I think one of my arguments against Splinter with Discord were that Discord kills your target faster than you can trigger enough Splinters. In that case I assume what you run is crap if it cant kill anything in 6 seconds of splinter lasting on you.

Lourens · Feb 20, 2009, 12:44 PM // 12:44

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Where the hell did I say that Daesu? You are making things up mate. o_O

I think one of my arguments against Splinter with Discord were that Discord kills your target faster than you can trigger enough Splinters. In that case I assume what run is crap if it cant kill anything in 6 seconds of splinter lasting on you.

toss [[arcane echo] on the hero bar and micro them even faster killing ^^

Super Igor · Feb 20, 2009, 01:57 PM // 13:57

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Originally Posted by Lourens

toss [[arcane echo] on the hero bar and micro them even faster killing ^^

so manly! must use ._.

Daesu · Feb 20, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

I think one of my arguments against Splinter with Discord were that Discord kills your target faster than you can trigger enough Splinters. In that case I assume what you run is crap if it cant kill anything in 6 seconds of splinter lasting on you.

Ah....that's where you are wrong.

Splinter Weapon is not cast on your target. It is cast on the character, so it doesn't matter if the target dies fast, you would still have splinter for the next target. For most cases, your next target is just adjacent to the previous one. Furthermore recast time for splinter is only 5s so it is easy to recast if needed.

Super Igor · Feb 20, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

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Originally Posted by Daesu

Ah....that's where you are wrong.

Splinter Weapon is not cast on your target. It is cast on the character, so it doesn't matter if the target dies fast, you would still have splinter for the next target. For most cases, your next target is just adjacent to the previous one. Furthermore recast time for splinter is only 5s so it is easy to recast if needed.

Captain obvious! Glad you figured out weapon spells are cast on ally and not a foe.

You forget one thing though, less foes = less splinter damage.

Also spammability, they can as well be spamming Discord. Thats why I didnt like to rely heavily on melee training, you cant call as well and your heroes spend most of their time spamming [barbs][splinter weapon][dark fury][weaken armor][ancestor's rage](if I used it) instead of [Discord] maybe its good n all but you lose out an edge on mobs with strong healing or bosses and Sab's did melee buffing job much better.

hunter · Feb 20, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

*yawn*, theorycrafting.

In areas with few mobs and or small mob groups you don't take Splinter at all but go full discord because as someone here mentioned, 1 of them tends to die by the time they get to your midline.

You only need splinter in areas of 6 man parties and up, and even then, it depends on where you are.

btw, the only spell out of those 5 i would bring on my discord bar is splinter whenever that is needed, rest of them are not worth the cast time.

barbs = waste of cast time on discord
Dark fury = lol
Weaken armor = meh
you want big numbers, just bring asuran scan

AtomicMew · Feb 20, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

If I weren't a necro myself, I'd probably take barbs/MoP on a hero, but disable it. Vs. healers, you will definitely want something to amp up the DPS. Barbs easily provides the equivalent DPS of two discorders spamming discord continuously.

Super Igor · Feb 20, 2009, 11:41 PM // 23:41

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Originally Posted by hunter

*yawn*, theorycrafting.

In areas with few mobs and or small mob groups you don't take Splinter at all but go full discord because as someone here mentioned, 1 of them tends to die by the time they get to your midline.

You only need splinter in areas of 6 man parties and up, and even then, it depends on where you are.

btw, the only spell out of those 5 i would bring on my discord bar is splinter whenever that is needed, rest of them are not worth the cast time.

barbs = waste of cast time on discord
Dark fury = lol
Weaken armor = meh
you want big numbers, just bring asuran scan

Exactly! Same reasons why I stopped using them, great summary. <3

[Dark Fury] goes well with [save yourselves] btw because it can be run on low spec so not a biggie even if SY! is your only adren skill but w/e.

Daesu · Feb 21, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Also spammability, they can as well be spamming Discord. Thats why I didnt like to rely heavily on melee training, you cant call as well and your heroes spend most of their time spamming [barbs][splinter weapon][dark fury][weaken armor][ancestor's rage](if I used it) instead of [Discord] maybe its good n all but you lose out an edge on mobs with strong healing or bosses and Sab's did melee buffing job much better.

I wouldn't bring splinter to a 4-man area. But even in an 8-man area, splinter just shines.

If you want to provide good support to physical characters, look at sabway. You dont need dark fury or even weaken armor or a puny level 10 ancestor's rage. A well built physical support team with enough buffs is way more powerful than what you have on your pvx site. I have barbs and splinter weapon in my physical damage support discordway and I find that I kill alot faster than a pure caster discord team. Plus, I also have AoE damage from Splinter. Even their healers can't heal fast enough in HM. I can just walk through them ignoring their healing as I kill everything around them. My caster supporting discordway (which is similar to what you have) have to worry about monster healing and hex removal.

A fully buffed up physical support team wins hands down over a pure caster supporting discordway.

Super Igor · Feb 21, 2009, 11:01 AM // 11:01

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Originally Posted by Daesu

I wouldn't bring splinter to a 4-man area. But even in an 8-man area, splinter just shines.

Not with Discord.

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If you want to provide good support to physical characters, look at sabway. You dont need dark fury or even weaken armor or a puny level 10 ancestor's rage. A well built physical support team with enough buffs is way more powerful than what you have on your pvx site. I have barbs and splinter weapon in my physical damage support discordway and I find that I kill alot faster than a pure caster discord team. Plus, I also have AoE damage from Splinter. Even their healers can't heal fast enough in HM. I can just walk through them ignoring their healing as I kill everything around them. My caster supporting discordway (which is similar to what you have) have to worry about monster healing and hex removal.

But by your logic every AoE damage helps so why are you still arguing? :O Also, read in the brackets, I rarely use AR.

Doubt that its more powerful, I kill like 2 mobs before you get into melee range to prime them lol.

If your Discord performs well [splinter weapon] should feel redundant but it seems yours doesnt. Bleh, ofc. it doesnt if your curser spends 90% spamming 2sec. cast barbs. xD

Youre doing it wrong then! D:

Healers cant heal enough? They should heal AT ALL if your Discord is good, they should be stuck on the ground being bashed by Discord youre so funny! xD

Then your "caster-supporting" Discord is wrong!

(each line responds to every bolded out bit respectively) :P

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A fully buffed up physical support team wins hands down over a pure caster supporting discordway.

Nuuu, youre doing it wrong mate.

Daesu · Feb 21, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Not with Discord.

You are just being stubborn.

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Doubt that its more powerful, I kill like 2 mobs before you get into melee range to prime them lol.

By the time you kill 2 monsters, I would have cleared the entire mob.

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If your Discord performs well [splinter weapon] should feel redundant but it seems yours doesnt. Bleh, ofc. it doesnt if your curser spends 90% spamming 2sec. cast barbs. xD

You still dont get it, my main damage is from my physical attacks and buffs, which kills alot faster than just depending on single target discord. Discord is only backup damage from my necros. Also your discord will not be effective in areas with lots of hex/condition removal, while I dont have such problems.

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Youre doing it wrong then! D:

If being successful and killing very fast is doing it wrong, then I dont want to be right.

Super Igor · Feb 22, 2009, 10:32 AM // 10:32

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Originally Posted by Daesu

You are just being stubborn.

no u

srsly

no u

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By the time you kill 2 monsters, I would have cleared the entire mob.

Learn to read maybe? By the time you get there I more to the next mob.

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You still dont get it, my main damage is from my physical attacks and buffs, which kills alot faster than just depending on single target discord. Discord is only backup damage from my necros. Also your discord will not be effective in areas with lots of hex/condition removal, while I dont have such problems.

No, single target damage from discord + death nova and bile are usually enough for not killing the attribute spread. Also, every discord is voulnerable to hex/condition removal.

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If being successful and killing very fast is doing it wrong, then I dont want to be right.

lolololol if you call that succesful an fast...

daze · Feb 22, 2009, 11:50 AM // 11:50

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Originally Posted by Daesu

You still dont get it, my main damage is from my physical attacks and buffs, which kills alot faster than just depending on single target discord. Discord is only backup damage from my necros. Also your discord will not be effective in areas with lots of hex/condition removal, while I dont have such problems.

So it seems that you are not taking full advantage of [[discord] with all the wasted time your heroes are spending on casting other crap. IMHO you should just stick to sabway, because it seems more tuned to your style.

When i use Discord, Im spiking down mobs so fast that a sin using [dash] wouldnt be able to catch an enemy before its dead. The reason is, because A: I dont load my bars down with extra stuff that takes a long time to cast and B: I prime targets with [assassins promise][you move like a dwarf] meaning both a condition and hex is applied at the exact same time. And with the KD from YMLAD the enemy is dead by the time it gets to its feet if not a single second after.

If you were to partner with me in the relm of torment with your warrior, you would need to bring [deaths charge] just to be able to get a hit in on the enemy. Then you would need [assassins promise] to keep recharging [deaths charge] if you wanted to hit all enemies at least once with your mighty p-ness sword enchanted with [splinter weapon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If being successful and killing very fast is doing it wrong, then I dont want to be right.

This just doesn't seem accurate.

Improvavel · Feb 22, 2009, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Discord isn't impressive damage per second as that Chton dude likes to state.

Discord is good for a few reasons - it lets you bring more defense without gimping your damage too much, it allows to spike in case of a need, it ignores blocking.

Additionally, is something that heroes do good.

But if not for (and even with) dodgy AI, an Earth shaker warrior hero (even without whirlwind, give him yeti smash) for example, will deals tons of damage.

Daesu · Feb 22, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

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Originally Posted by Improvavel

Discord isn't impressive damage per second as that Chton dude likes to state.

Discord is good for a few reasons - it lets you bring more defense without gimping your damage too much, it allows to spike in case of a need, it ignores blocking.

Additionally, is something that heroes do good.

But if not for (and even with) dodgy AI, an Earth shaker warrior hero (even without whirlwind, give him yeti smash) for example, will deals tons of damage.

That is what I have been trying to say.

The fact that discord ignores blocking and armor makes it a good backup damage for my melee characters. A well buffed up melee character deals even more damage than discord, especially one dealing AoE damage from Splinter Weapon/Whirlwind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

No, single target damage from discord + death nova and bile are usually enough for not killing the attribute spread. Also, every discord is voulnerable to hex/condition removal.

You have too much blind faith in discord. The damage is good but it is definitely not the best form of damage out there. If it is, I would be trying to use the pvx discord build for my physical characters. I still kill much faster from my melee damage (with all the buffs), than I do just relying on discord. Why? Because discord only kills 1 target at a time, and your caster would stop casting, just to kite, if she is being chased by a melee monster or a mob of melee monsters. My melee characters avoid this problem because I usually hold aggro well and finish the mob off with a combination of discord+splinter+buffed scythe attacks. I usually let the melee mob come to me, if your melee character keeps chasing monsters all over the place, then you are doing it wrong because you would not be holding aggro very well. Relying on discord also has its weaknesses in hex/condition removal heavy areas.

I am starting to think that you have never ever played an effective melee character in your life which explains why you diss melee so much and over emphasize casters. Remember that GW character classes are balanced with each class having his own strengths and weaknesses. Asking ALL the character classes to play as a caster shows that you have not understood this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

By the time you get there I more to the next mob.

That has to be one of the most silly exaggeration I have ever read since I have also tried your exact caster style discord build. It is not as effective as you keep claiming, especially when compared against a good melee supporting discord with wounding strike+asuran scan.

And recommending a warrior to play as a staff wielding caster with only 2 pips of energy regen and 20e base energy is the most ridiculous idea from your pvx discord build.

Super Igor · Feb 22, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

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Originally Posted by Daesu

That is what I have been trying to say.

The fact that discord ignores blocking and armor makes it a good backup damage for my melee characters. A well buffed up melee character deals even more damage than discord, especially one dealing AoE damage from Splinter Weapon/Whirlwind.

Actually it completely opposite what you are trying to say and you carry on arguing with everyone and dont even listen to what people are telling you.

If you see Discord as backup damage then you dont run it right.

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You have too much blind faith in discord. The damage is good but it is definitely not the best form of damage out there. If it is, I would be trying to use the pvx discord build for my physical characters. I still kill much faster from my melee damage (with all the buffs), than I do just relying on discord. Why? Because discord only kills 1 target at a time, and your caster would stop casting, just to kite, if she is being chased by a melee monster or a mob of melee monsters. My melee characters avoid this problem because I usually hold aggro well and finish the mob off with a combination of discord+splinter+buffed scythe attacks. I usually let the melee mob come to me, if your melee character keeps chasing monsters all over the place, then you are doing it wrong because you would not be holding aggro very well. Relying on discord also has its weaknesses in hex/condition removal heavy areas.

Its not blind faith, I just understant that 300 damage spikes + caller which can take down any mob in mere seconds cant be bad.

Anyway you have explained to have no idea how to run Discord and I actually doubt you did. Kiting when you are AP Caller? every melee blows up before it gets to you and your restos have no problem to keep your party alive before every mob explodes what are you talking about?

I think Discord is just too hard to run for you and you should return to mindless sabway.

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I am starting to think that you have never ever played an effective melee character in your life which explains why you diss melee so much and over emphasize casters. Remember that GW character classes are balanced with each class having his own strengths and weaknesses. Asking ALL the character classes to play as a caster shows that you have not understood this.

I wish you stopped thinking at all. You clearly havent been around for long or maybe your head is so far up your ass you never notice anything otherwise you would have known that Im one of the biggest physical damage fans on this forum. But it doesnt mean that I dont understant where going physical is effective and where its not, for Discord its not effective and also the reason why I hate it.
Also, person who runs a critscythe over MS/DB speaks of effectiveness lol.

Bloded bit: I LAUGHED SO RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING HARD!! Build Wars is balanced? You must be kidding me.

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That has to be one of the most silly exaggeration I have ever read since I have also tried your exact caster style discord build. It is not as effective as you keep claiming, especially when compared against a good melee supporting discord with wounding strike+asuran scan.

Because you never played it and are bitching?

daze said it very well and dont ignore what people tell you, its obvious that what you run isnt effective because isntead of concentrating on Discord your heroes spend all their time buffing melee thats why you cant believe that Discord alone can outperform what you run, because you have never seen how real good Discordway performs. Evidence for that is that you call Discord backup damage, nobody who has run even a half decent d-way wont call it this.

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And recommending a warrior to play as a staff wielding caster with only 2 pips of energy regen and 20e base energy is the most ridiculous idea from your pvx discord build.

If you have a staff you no longer have 20e + radiant insignia stop being so bad and for a warrior AP+YMLaD is best calling option. My guild leader runs AP+YMLaD on his war and never complained and hes top10 gvg who also has several tigger acounts and you think youre good enough to tell him how to play GW?

AtomicMew · Feb 22, 2009, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Daesu, why not just run sabway?

Daesu · Feb 22, 2009, 11:37 PM // 23:37

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Actually it completely opposite what you are trying to say and you carry on arguing with everyone and dont even listen to what people are telling you.

And I have been trying to tell you that warriors make the worst casters with only 2 pips of energy regen and 20e base energy but you keep recommending a caster warrior in your pvx discord build.

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every melee blows up before it gets to you

Wong! A SINGLE melee monster blows up before it gets to you and that is only because of YMLAD cripple buying you time, would be more believable. If you have more melee monsters running towards you, you wont be able to blow them all up before they reach you. You keep forgeting discord is single targeting.

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Also, person who runs a critscythe over MS/DB speaks of effectiveness lol.

If that is so, then why are you always the one to back down whenever I challenge you for an in-game damage measurement at the master of damage? All you have ever done whenever I challenged you in the game is to simply find a lame excuse, and run away then stubbornly stick to your point in the forum.

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its obvious that what you run isnt effective because isntead of concentrating on Discord your heroes spend all their time buffing melee

That is because you dont understand how a melee character can synergize with a discord team.

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If you have a staff you no longer have 20e + radiant insignia stop being so bad and for a warrior AP+YMLaD is best calling option. My guild leader runs AP+YMLaD on his war and never complained

If your warrior wields a staff, then he is not wielding a shield and he is probably not in the frontline. And a staff is not going to help his mere 2 pips of energy regen (only half of a caster's) either.

Tell your guild leader he might as well trade in his warrior-caster for a REAL caster with 4 pips of energy regen and at least +10 to his base energy pool. It is just sad to see a warrior killing slower than a regular caster because you dont know how to use a warrior to his max effectiveness.